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Hi there. You're listening to the Leading Lady podcast. I'm your host, Alison Loftus, and I'm a certified professional
coach specializing in leadership and work life balance. I work with clients to shift their limiting beliefs, insecurities,
and self doubt. This podcast will be filled with tools and strategies to help high achieving women like you feel
connected, empowered, and in the lead of your life, both personally and professionally. Let's transform your life,
starting now. Lead yourself. The rest will follow.
Hi there leading ladies and welcome to today's podcast episode. I am joined by three amazing guests and we are
going to take a deep dive into, dare I say this dirty word perfectionism. I'm so excited to chat with you ladies. And
what inspired this podcast episode is last night. Lisa Van Wormer, one of our guests today, hosted a leading lady
book club where we talked about the book, The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control. And we're just going to briefly
touch on that book. I don't want to give too many spoilers of that, but I felt that it really opened up an opportunity for
us to talk about perfectionism and how it shows up in our lives and our businesses. So before we get started, can we
go around? Can we do intros? Ladies, thank you for being here. I cannot wait to chit chat. So Lisa, go ahead.
Great. So my name is Lisa Van Wormer. I own a Bravo Analytics. It's a government contracting and consulting
company where I help people find their place in space, in government contracting, and get their certifications to be
competitive to go after the billions of dollars available. I actually this book came from one of our. I'm one of the
ambassadors with the leading lady program focused on government contracting to help people. And this book came
as a suggestion from one of our other ambassadors, Gayla McRae. It's the perfectionist guide. And I was like, I'm not
a perfectionist. Fun fact I am 100% a messy perfectionist. It reads like you know how you read your horoscope and
you're like, oh yeah, like you're gonna like walk through a door today and you're like, yep, that's totally me. I walk
through a door. No, this is like reading into my soul. So I'm excited to get into talking about it because I've always
seen perfectionism as a negative. And it gives you an opportunity, like you said, to think about the ways that it is a
part of you and it can help you thrive in the things that you're good at.
Awesome. Thank you. Aubrey.
I'm excited to be here. I'm Aubrey Edwards, CEO of Bright Beginning Children's Learning Center. We are a high
quality private preschool program in Anne Arundel County with two convenient locations one in Glen Burnie, one in
Crownsville. And I'm excited to be here because I think this helps other people understand me well. Gives explanation
to why I am the way that I am.

It all started on a warm day in June of 80. Thank you, Aubrey and Jen Osterhaus.
Hello, I'm Jen Osterhaus. I am a graphic designer. My business is Jennifer Osterhaus graphic design. I help clients to
up level their marketing materials by designing custom branded marketing pieces that promote the products and
services that their businesses offer, as well as the events that people attend and all things print. I am very excited
about this. I wanted to read the book, Lisa, but I'm still on the last book that I haven't gotten through yet, but I very
much consider myself a perfectionist, I think because I'm a people pleaser, I feel like that maybe goes hand in hand.
And so I'm very curious to see how it can be positive.
I really did love that. Yeah, I did love that because perfectionism kind of gets a bad rap, right? And I love how the
book invited us to embrace it and not see it as a negative. And ladies, guess what? Surprise. Elizabeth Harris just
popped in. So Elizabeth, can you take a moment to introduce yourself?
I can. Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm Elizabeth Harris, I am a registered dietitian. I'm a certified intuitive eating
counselor, and I've been a leading lady ambassador for, gosh, like six, six or so years, I think. And basically I help
people break up with dieting and prioritize their eating health and well-being and also offer corporate wellness
services.
Awesome. Awesome. So this is a little bit different than a normal podcast episode because I sent the text out 15
minutes ago, hey, can we jump on a podcast and talk about perfectionism? So thank you ladies for being here. I think
each and every one of us can say that perfectionism. Shows up in our personal lives or in our business, how we
conduct ourselves as we navigate this crazy world. And I just really love and appreciate the opportunity to talk about
this. And just as Jen Osterhaus was highlighting that it isn't a negative thing, it doesn't have to be a negative thing.
It's only negative if we put a negative connotation on it. So, Lisa, since you led the book club and you're such a great
facilitator of these types of conversations, I'm going to let you take the lead on this. And if you could kick us off by
talking about the five different types of perfectionism outlined in this book. I'm sure there's many more people have
other ways of classifying it as well. And if you didn't read the book, Jen, Elizabeth, see kind of what resonates with
you and maybe take a guess as to where you might fit.
Yeah. So there's five types outlined in this book, perfectionist archetypes, and you can be one solidly. There's a quiz
that you can take. Maybe we can link it in here or something. And it's always seven questions. So for those of us who
are like, oh no, I can't do another personality quiz, it's only seven questions. And you can be a blend of two or you
can be so strongly one. So the first type is a classic perfectionist. It's what you would think highly disciplined, detail
oriented, structured, crave consistency, but tend to struggle when routines change. Intense perfectionists deeply
focused on successful outcomes. They're highly driven, but can be punitive or alienate people when high standards
aren't met. Parisian perfectionists, which Jen also may be you. This is my secondary one. Empathetic and
interpersonal, they focus heavily on connection, but can burn out due to toxic people pleasing procrastinator
perfectionists which we said no procrastinate. A perfectionist came to book club because they would never show up
to book club having not read the book, They're excellent at preparing and analyzing. They get paralyzed, waiting for
conditions to be perfect before starting. And then messy. Perfectionists, like I said, was my primary enthusiastic idea.
Generators. They love starting new beginnings, but can struggle with consistency and follow through. So those are
the main five archetypes. But I think what is different about this conversation in this book? And then the conversation
we had is that there's two core states of perfectionism. They talk about, they talk about adaptive, which are healthy
is a healthy state of perfectionism and maladaptive, which is unhealthy. So the adaptive state of perfectionism is
when you're embracing the power of choice, you're drawing motivation from optimism, and you view ideals as
inspiring rather than absolute.
And maladaptive is you feel trapped in a need for control, mistake ideals for mandatory goals, and punish yourself
when you fall short. And I think overall, every person that has perfectionist tendencies or is a perfectionist like
strongly in one way or another. Like we're both of these things and it's about choosing power over control, meaning
like power is, okay, I can take this information and energy and I can move it in a different direction, or I can like wield
it in a different way. And control is there's one example in there where this traumatic event happens and the person
it happens to, she tries to control. She has this plan in her head that if she does these seven things, when she gets to
the end, she'll no longer be hurt by this trauma because she'll have overcome it. So she's trying to control her
emotions, which isn't healing through the situation. So yeah, it's about trying to use your power versus your control in
the situation. So that's kind of the general synopsis. I think that when you take the quiz. The questions are really far
out there. Like, it's not like a man, I really want to be Gryffindor house. So I know what gryffindors are like, and I'm
going to be that they're really kind of all over the place, you know, like, I know I want to be a Gryffindor. I always
score Gryffindor, by the way, but it is like nice.

Little Harry Potter reference there. Yeah, not everyone gets Harry Potter. Lisa.
I mean, okay, sure. But yeah, I think it is like the questions make you activate your brain across the different areas,
you know, like which one of these would really bug you? Which one of these makes you feel the best? Which one of
these is super frustrating? So it's kind of hard to choose the way you want to go. Well, maybe some people can, but
not me. I had a hard time.
I want to go back to the like, adaptive and maladaptive. And this is where it really highlighted to me that
perfectionism isn't always negative. So this might surprise you. And for our listeners, hold on to your socks. I'm about
to blow your mind. Here is I am an intense perfectionist. I know, I know, it's a surprise, right? And I think that that can
be somewhat of my superpower. I truly look at things and I think, how can I make this better? How can I make this
better? I live in a state of aspiring to excellence, and I hope that that translates in the work that I do, the experiences
that I create for others, how I navigate myself through business and through life. I truly am seeking excellence. That's
amazing. Right? And I don't really get beat up as I'm learning things. I'm like, oh, I'm learning. I'll just do better next
time. I think that that's very adaptive and it's a very positive way of living and working. What really resonated with
me was in the maladaptive is when I lose joy in creating situations for others. So when we talked a little bit about
this, like, I love the holidays, I love holidays, I love birthdays, I love, I love celebrating Tuesday. I mean, it's amazing,
right? What a way to live life. And, but I get like hyper fixated on the experience and what that perfect experience is
going to look like. And I end up working so hard to curate it for others that if there's any, like grumble or grievance or
change of plans, or maybe somebody didn't appreciate the effort that I put into that perfectionism, it completely
drains my joy. And I think the author, she described herself as this too, and it kind of creates like a joyless life. And
I'm like, that's me, that's me. I lose joy in so much because I'm curating that. And so I think that shone light on how
we kind of choose, we choose our perspective of perfectionism and how we can maybe check ourselves a little bit of
did I tip too far?
Yeah, I think that for me, when I'm in a situation that I don't have control over, like that's when I like, I think my
maladaptive perfectionism will come out like travel. I was talking last night about travel for me, I'm one of those
people who is like very intense, like, until we get through security gate and we're sitting down at the Green Turtle
with like a beer at nine in the morning. Until that happens, I'm stressed. Like I'm stressed going through the like, are
we going to get there on time? What if there's traffic? Where's there parking? Did I record where I parked the car?
Does everyone have their stuff? Do we all have our IDs? Because I can't control all of these things. I can't control the
traffic. I can't control the weather. I can't control if the plane's going to be on time. I can't control any of that stuff. So
when all of those things are out of my control, like I get really rigid and we have to do this. It has to be this, it has to
be this way. And if things start going awry, like I am definitely not my best self when that happens.
But where does perfectionism like really serve you?
Oh, I think that for me, I am 100% an idea generator. I love being in a group of people or being with like maybe 1 or 2
people, and we are trying to come up with something new or a new solution. And I love walking the path of that. I
didn't realize that was like a perfectionist type. And then when I was reading about it, I was like, oh, that is definitely
me. Like, I love that. But it means that sometimes I have a hard time crossing the finish line because I'm like, oh my
gosh, look at that. Oh, what's that shiny thing? Like, let's do this new thing. And so it's good to know now that that is
a thing, like learning more about it, because then I can try to put more power into. When I'm struggling through the
middle of something like, what can I do in the middle to help keep me charged, to go to the end? Right.
Anyone else like where does perfectionism serve you? Where are you so thankful that you are a perfectionist?
I was going to share like I've never viewed being a perfectionist as something negative or a flaw. I always have seen
it as a way to keep my sanity. You know, I'm somebody that likes to stay organized. Your typical classic perfectionist.
I wrote in one of the books, I have 11 calendars. You know, like I keep myself organized. I think that being a
perfectionist for me has helped me, especially being a single parent, somebody that leads a company. If I'm not
organized, that's chaos that trickles down. So I've always seen that as something positive.
You're perfect to me.
Thank you. Thank you.

I don't know how I would function without a classic perfectionist. We talked about this. An intense perfectionist paired
with a perfectionist. We're basically a power couple. Like look out.
So interestingly, I definitely think that I'm a perfectionist, but I didn't necessarily relate to any of those five architects.
So I don't know what that says about me or archetypes, but I think the positives of it are same. Like I'm pretty
organized and I get things done. And if I say I'm going to do it, I do it. And the quality of work that I put out, I think is
always excellent. The downside for me is it shocker alisan, but the overthinking, like my overthinking, stems from
that desire for everything to be perfect. And just so.
Yeah. Lisa, where does she fit in that?
He sounds like an intense to me. Yeah, that you create a high level standard and like you expect other people to be a
high level standard and you to be at one at all times.
Yeah, that's probably true.
Yeah. I'd be curious if once you read the book, we're going to have to have a follow up episode.
I definitely need to read the book. Ever since you said you were reading this book, I'm like, oh, I need to read that
book.

I didn't say I was reading the book. I got lovingly called out, hey, Allison, you need to read this book. And I'm like,
well.
I have a, I have the physical copy. And I know we're just on audio here, but mine has tabs and is highlighted. And I
was like, what kind of perfectionist does that make me? But I feel like Aubrey was kind of like closing her eye, looking
at it because all my tabs are a little wonky. None of them are straight. The highlighting is sometimes on the line or off
the line. Like I get it like messy perfectionist. I'm owning it. That's me.
If there was ever an episode to have video, it would be this episode. Aubrey is the same color as the wall behind you
because I looked across the table and her. I was like twitching.
Yeah, I would buy like all new tabs. Like they would have be perfect. They would have to be straight or I would have
to start all over.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. I also kind of laughed about it as I was doing it. I was like, wow, this is gonna really drive
some people crazy.
All right, graphic designer Jen Osterhaus.
Aubry, is your closet color coordinated?
It's not color coordinated, but it is organized by like the length of the shirt sleeves. So like tank tops, short sleeves to
quarters to, to long. Same for pants. Capris down.
Oh my God. I fall into classic. And Alison, you pointed at me when Lisa read that one. Because I like to be organized. I
like everything just so. I like to have my rhythm and my routine. And please don't take me out of it because, you
know, like, because it's I mean, I mean, I can, I can go with the like I can.
No, you cannot.

Yeah, I can, I can, I don't love it. I don't love doing it, but like, I can.
Like, I can do it.
I just like when I'm in my rhythm and my flow and my routine, like that's when I feel my best. That's when I do my
best. Like that's when I think, I feel like that's when I'm like the best version of myself. And when that gets not
disrupted, like, okay, one day was a bad day, but when like big life stuff happens and it just totally shifts me like,
man, it takes me a while to get my footing again, you know what I mean? And like Lisa said, that Parisian
perfectionist, I mean, I'm definitely a people pleaser type person. Like I want everyone to be happy. You know, I, I
don't want anybody to be mad at me, you know, kind of thing. So I think I fall into those two categories, but classic,
that's 100% like without a doubt it differently than Aubrey. Like if my Post-it notes a little off, it's okay. But but, but
still like.

A touch of OCD in there too. Yeah, yeah. And the book did talk about that, how perfectionism isn't always OCD, but it,
I think it manifests in different ways, you know?
Yeah, it did talk about like there being a reason that perfectionism isn't considered a disorder and that OCD. And then
they said Ocpd, which is obsessive compulsive personality disorder and how those are disorders because they are out
of the control of the person. And what they kept talking about was with perfectionism, being adaptive and
maladaptive. Like you get an opportunity to use these skills and traits that you have to be high functioning, high
performing. You know, one thing that they talked about that maybe it would be interesting to discuss is I think that
perfectionism, especially in women, is seen as a negative. But the two, like Gordon Ramsay, obviously perfectionist,
right? He is such a jerk. But sometimes. But his stuff comes out like he just has high standards and like, you cannot
fall under it. Right? So he has multiple shows where he is using his perfectionism to like encourage people and like be
entertaining and whatever. But they pointed out that the two women perfectionists that have shows, you know, the
classic ones are Martha Stewart and Marie Kondo. And that the reason that those are acceptable for like mass media
consumption is because they're doing homemaking skills, they're doing traditional female role focus skills. And I hate
that I saw your face. I hate it. I know like there is some talk about like, if you're going to be perfectionist as like a
woman, you got to have a super clean home. Like that's what they're expecting. My home is amazing. I have all my.
Oh my God, should I turn my camera around and show you what's over there?
Yeah, I. Yes. It's not it, but like, unfortunately there is that talk like men can be perfectionists and they're high
performing, you know, like business moguls or whatever. But there was this talk about like perfectionism in women is
seen as negative unless it's focused on traditional women roles.
Yeah, I think that's wild. And maybe that's like a whole other episode.
Hi, I'm Jennifer Osterhaus, the owner of Jennifer Osterhaus Graphic Design. I help clients to assess and uplevel their
marketing materials by designing custom branded marketing pieces to promote the products and services that their
businesses offer. If you're interested in learning more, I'd love to chat with you. Please feel free to reach out to me at
my website, www.gen.com.
I want to pull this back to like the ambassadors that are chosen for leading lady. It's it's for a standard of excellence.
And I look at each of you, you know, and the work that I do with Aubrey and, and I wouldn't have been able to trust
Aubrey to take on the role of CEO if I didn't know that she was going to execute it perfectly. Right. I wouldn't
recommend people reach out to Jen Osterhaus for graphic design. If I didn't feel that the client was going to be like,
wow, that's exactly what I was looking for. And she executed that perfectly. You know, same for you, Lisa and
Elizabeth. So when we think about our businesses and what our clients are looking for or what they hope to
experience with us and what we hope to deliver, I kind of feel like, thank goodness for perfectionism. Thank goodness
for how we execute it and the thoughtfulness. And we talked about this last night. I see perfectionism as
thoughtfulness, as intentionality in the work that we do, the attention to detail, the attention to excellence, the
thoughtfulness of the experience that we have for ourselves and that we create for others. And so when you think
about your business, what do you think the benefit your clients feel when they get to work with you? Elizabeth, we'll
start with you.

I think for me, because I'm a perfectionist, I am constantly engaging in professional development and learning and
like want to be on top of the research and the latest, you know, ways, counseling methods and like updated nutrition
science information. And I don't want to get it wrong. And so I spent a lot of time and energy learning that and
continually developing myself as a dietitian, which obviously that can only benefit the people that I work with.
Yeah, it's not trend based. What I love about the work that you do is I can trust what you put out there, because I
know you did the due diligence to make sure that it's fact. It's not a trend. It's based in science. Like you did that
work for me, you know?
Yeah. And I mean, even just the fact that I went back to school and became a dietitian in midlife, right? Like anybody
can stick a shingle out and call themselves a nutritionist. And I certainly could have done that too. And I was well
read and had a lot of knowledge, but I didn't have the level of knowledge and training and expertise that I do now.
And my perfectionism would have never let me go that route, right. If I was going to do it, I was gonna do it the right
way. Yeah.
I don't know. Does anyone else see like, that was like a drop the mic moment for Elizabeth. Like she knows her stuff.
Don't challenge her on it because she's done twice the research you have.
Well, I mean, it doesn't mean that I can't be wrong, right, or make mistakes, but it definitely means that.
When's the last time you were wrong?
I don't know, don't ask my husband.
But I think that's important in your field, though, Elizabeth. Like you're choosing to be in a field where you don't have
to have a certification or anything. And so you choose not to be a snake oil salesman. You choose to like, have, you
know, your clients have a full like experience just for them that is based in science and rooted around their
personality versus someone who's just, I want to have 500 clients. You're like, okay, the.
Reality.
Is that too.

Yeah. The reality is it's people's health. Like, it shouldn't be an opportunity for anyone to just throw their hat in the
ring. Like you should only be working with trained professionals.
But yeah.
Obviously wellness culture goes awry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wellness culture takes a bit of a hit in this in this book.
Does it really? Yeah. A lot of.
Toxic wellness culture is in there for sure.
Ah, well, you know, I, I, it's ironic we're having this conversation because as you all know, that is a huge part of the
work that I do is helping people kind of get out of that all or nothing perfectionist mindset with food and find the
happy, healthy middle. Yeah, yeah.

Love it, love it. Anyone else like why is it working?
I think for me, like, so helping a small business see themselves in this government contracting arena like state, local
or federal, I think that is perfect for my type of perfectionism. Like I'm helping people dream in a different way about
their business. The people that I work with, they are very focused business owners, and they know all of the things to
do their business. But I get an opportunity to say, but what if instead of doing this, what if we just expanded a bit and
you did it for this group or for these people or for something else. You know, taking what you do best and putting it
on a different scale. I love doing that with people. Letting them see their business in a different light, in a different
financial stream. But also, like I have very strong process focused perfectionism. So I understand the 127 steps it's
going to take to get you through like A to Z to get in through the certification process or like what it takes to read
through a proposal, you know, to me, because I understand the process so strongly. I don't see that as a limiter of
going after these things. And I think a lot of people like get lost in the process. And so process perfectionism is like,
you know, goes across all five and everyone does it a little different. But for me, like, I think that is what makes me
helping other clients find government contracting and going after it. It's like sets me up perfectly. Like I want to
dream with you and I want to help you go after it.
Yeah. I love it, and I could not agree more because for a perfectionist that like obsesses over like the craziest details
or, or gets overwhelmed by the details, having someone else that can thoughtfully and carefully comb through that
diligently. Oh, what a relief, right? Yeah.
Well, also, Lisa, I think that's where your strength of idea generation at, which is one and heard, are one of the
archetypes you said comes in to if you really are helping people generate ideas and think about opportunities and
possibilities that they probably never thought of.
Yeah, I just thought I was a, I always viewed it as distraction, like, okay, so we're doing this, but like, what about that?
But I really love learning more about it and I want to learn more about it. So I can really hone in on like the power of
it, you know?
Yeah. Aubrey or Jen, where does this fit for your clients?
I think for me, but I honestly feel like this is a case with all of us. When somebody engages with me to do a project
and we talk about what it is we're going to do, they've basically laid it in my hands to take care of. And it's kind of off
their plate. It's out of their head. There's a level of trust there that they're going to get from me. What we talked
about kind of thing. And I think for me, like, you know, when I'm meeting with clients, I'm taking diligent notes and
I'm paying attention to all the things and I'm thinking about all the things and all the options. Like if you get a design
from me, you don't just get one. If I'm doing a logo, you're getting four. You know what I mean? Because my kind of
like Lisa, like my brain's going in some different directions. And you might like one thing from one and one thing from
another, and we're going to marry those together. So I think for me, my like, perfectionism and my diligence in my
work is almost like giving the client, like you were saying, like that breath of like, okay, she's got it now. She's going
to take care of this and I'm going to work on this because this is my wheelhouse and this is where I can do my best,
right? So I feel like, or at least I hope that's what I, that's what I'm offering to clients is just giving them that comfort. I
don't know if that's the right word of knowing that, like the job's going to get done and it's going to get done well,
and you're going to end up with a really good like product or marketing piece or logo or whatever it might be.
Yeah, I can say having worked with Jen, two areas where I really appreciate probably her perfectionist tendencies are
the attention to detail of like every little aspect of the design and the copy. And she's just has tremendous attention
to detail for the product itself. But then also the process. So very clearly outlines what to expect, what's going to
happen, where she comes in, where you come in, when and then like she's on you in a good way.
Yeah, I'll just ditto that. That was exactly what I was going to say as a client of yours too. And I think there's peace of
mind in that. I can hand something off to you, and I don't have to think about it again. And as you were talking about
that, I think that you assume that all business owners behave that way and they don't. Yeah. They don't. And so I do
not take for granted when I find someone that I can hand something off to and trust 1,000% that it's going to be
handled well.

Yeah, I don't think about it any different. You know what I mean? It's like, it's just how you do it. That's just how it
works. And every ambassador that we have, I would think of them in the exact same, you know what I mean? I would
obviously refer any one of them. I've worked with all of them. And I wouldn't even think twice about I mean, my gosh,
whenever I have a health question or food question, anything comes up like Elizabeth gets a text from me, like
immediately after whatever it is because I fully trust her, like she was saying, and her education and her knowledge.
And if she doesn't know it, she's like, I'm going to go look that up and get right back to you.
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that about the community that you've put together too, Alison, because you're an intense
perfectionist. Like you have a really high standard of excellence. And as an ambassador, I don't feel that you do that
in a punitive way. You hold us to a higher standard, and you encourage us to be at a higher standard, which is great.
But also, like, you know, you're currently I mean, it's 2026 currently you're, you know, the Facebook group is like
7500 people. I'm sure it could be way more if you allowed people who didn't take their business seriously or did kind
of shady things or things where like you're like, oh, who cares? That was just one client. I'm moving on. If you allowed
that in the group, it would be a lot bigger. But you as a perfectionist for your group, like you go through and call the
hurt all the time. You know, you're going not calling us cows, but I'm just saying like, you know, you go through it's
mostly.
Cats, it's hurting cats. But yes, right.
You go through and you make sure that everyone that participates has the freedom to participate in whatever they
are, but you hold them to a standard.
And yeah, all.
Are welcome, all are welcome. But you've got ethics and standards that you have to hold. And if you can't do that, I
bless and release. Yeah. Like go find somewhere else where.
I think that's what makes it so different too, is like other community groups. They just want to have the highest
number, the highest engagements, the highest, whatever. And maybe that's their perfectionism showing they see
that through those analytics, but like you care more about the core of why you started it. And I always appreciate
that. Like being a member of the group.
Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. We're in good company. All right, Aubrey, close us out. What makes that
perfectionism the secret sauce for your business?
I, yeah, I was thinking about this. I think for me, the type of perfectionist that I am means clarity. And clarity equals
safety. Safety for our families, our children, our employees that work with us. I'm somebody that follows systems and
routines and the processes. I keep things organized when things are messy or chaotic, that creates chaos and people
get hurt and kids get.
Hurt, right?
And I think of even in leading ladies, if I did not keep things organized or flowing, like there would be chaos with the
groups and event space and stuff like that. So I think that for me, it's such a benefit to clarity and safety.
Yeah, I could not agree more. Clarity is kindness. Clarity is safety. Clarity is is key, right? It really keeps things flowing
smoothly and it keeps everyone safe. And it creates a space where people can trust. And there's no confusion in that.
And confusion is where mistakes happen. It is where feelings get hurt. It is where people, people get hurt. Children
could get hurt if things aren't clear and something I've always appreciated. Aubrey handles all the like licensing and
regulations for the business, and I used to find that stuff. I'm like, why do they ask this? And she's like, girl, we have
to have that because any idiot could interpret this. And then like, people get hurt and I really value that. So thanks,
Aubrey. Thanks for keeping it clear.

And I'm just, you know, with you being the intense and then me being classic with a little bit of tense, I think that's
what worked. Jen's laughing because I think that what makes us work is that we might have a different approach to
something, but we always have the same results. Like we want the same results, you know? We want that high
standard, high quality. We pay attention to details. It's just the approach is a little bit different. And I think that that's
just what has always worked. People are like, I can't believe you guys have worked together for 20 some years. And
I'm like, because it's easy. It's not like a hard work relationship or just relationship. It's easy. We have the same
values and vision every single time.
And I feel the same way about like the ambassador program. We all want that level of excellence. We all want to be
that resource and that. And so when you I don't know, there's power and perfectionism. Ladies, I think I have to go
back and look at some old episodes where I dissed perfectionism. I called myself a recovering perfectionist. I think
I'm going to own it. I think I'm going to have a little gratitude for this trait, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, ladies, thank you. Thanks for our impromptu conversation on perfectionism. If you haven't read the
book, I hope that you do. We'll drop the title and the link. Lisa, do you think we could drop the link to the the little
quiz in our show notes as well? So if you're listening to this podcast, I hope that you found something that resonated
with you. Take the quiz. Reach out to the ambassadors that are on this call. I'm looking at it. I'm like, we've got
government contracting, preschool graphic design, and a registered dietitian. When else are we all going to be in the
same room talking about perfectionism and how it shows up in our business? I think that's the beauty of this
community is that we all have such powerful perspective. Look at me with all my alliteration. Powerful perspective of
perfection, please. So great conversation. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I hope that everyone's able to pull a
nugget of wisdom from this and embrace who they are. Recognize that perfectionism can be a positive in your
business. And stop trying to change yourself or put yourself down thinking that it's a flaw. Because obviously we're
getting stuff done. All right. Until next time, take the leap. Thanks for tuning in for another episode of the Leading
Lady podcast. You can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at w w w dot dash dot com. If
you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're
there, it would mean the world to me if you would take a few seconds and leave me an honest review. This will allow
me to be able to help other high achieving women find inspiration, connection, and develop strategies to live and
lead with purpose and intention. See you here next week.

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